Can I fly someplace on an overnight trip?
Yes! The rules for members to fly their aircraft on longer trips are very open. The Operations Manual specifies in Section 6.9 that the minimum charge is one tach hour per 24 hours the aircraft is reserved. E.g., if you fly approximately a 7-hour round-trip, you can be away about a week before any additional fees are assessed. Contact the club Treasurer if you have any questions about specific trips.
Can I join a meeting remotely?
Probably. Contact the operations officer and ask for a given meeting. We can usually do Skype, but often without a camera (sorry!).
That said, if you’re looking to join as a new member, please attend in person unless you absolutely cannot.
Many of your questions are already addressed in the club’s Operations Manual and By-Laws. Please review these important documents located on this website. If you do not find your answer please feel free to contact any member of our board of directors or flight instructors.
We want to be sure we are the right organization to meet your needs and satisfy your pleasure in flying. Our members range from low time private pilots to corporate pilots, retired and active, and former wide bodied captains. Whatever your skill-set you will fit right in and feel welcome. Flying is what we all have in common.
Where can I find the club’s operating procedures?
Each Club member, upon entry into Phoenix Flyers, is provided the most current version of the Corporate By-Laws and Operating Procedures. Detailed information regarding flying operations, billings, etc., is contained in this manual. All members are expected to read and obey all club operating procedures.
Is there a regularly-scheduled meeting I can attend?
Board meetings are held monthly on the fourth Tuesday of each month. They alternate between Chandler and Deer Valley airports. Anyone is welcome to attend. See our Events page for more information.
How are the club aircraft insured?
As of October 2017, the aircraft are insured with liability limits of $100,000 per person and $1,000,000 per occurrence. Medical payments are covered to a level of $3,000 per person and $18,000 per occurrence. Hull insurance is covered above a $250 deductible for not-in-motion and $1,000 in-motion. Coverage only applies when the aircraft are operated by a corporation member with a current medical and flight review as required by FAA regulations, current in the aircraft being flown, and in compliance with all of the FAR.
Each member is responsible to the full deductible amount during the time he or she is in possession of the corporation aircraft. That is, if the plane is damaged, whether through carelessness or not, the member who is signed out for the aircraft is responsible for the first $250 or $1000 as applicable.
Individual members can also carry supplemental insurance if they choose. Many insurers’ guidelines for rental insurance include fractional-ownership in a flying club as large as Phoenix Flyers. Talk to your agent for details.
What is the purpose of a flying club?
Phoenix Flyers, Inc. was established in 1958 for the purpose of providing cost effective aircraft to it’s members for educational, social and recreational purposes involving the proper use and enjoyment of aircraft and the improvement of flying skills.
How do members reserve aircraft?
Why do you rotate the aircraft between Chandler and Deer Valley airports?
We rotate the four aircraft between Chandler and Deer Valley airports on a four-month schedule to equalize access to our various aircraft types between all of our members across the Valley.
You can see upcoming aircraft swaps on the Events page.
Why are your aircraft in both Chandler and Deer Valley airports?
Since we had been based at Sky Harbor from 1958 to 1997, we have members from all over the Valley. We chose Chandler and Deer Valley as the majority of our members live near one of these two airports.
How do you budget for engine reserve?
We have built an engine reserve fund into the hourly rates for the aircraft.
Who does the aircraft maintenance?
Routine shop maintenance is performed at Chandler Aviation, Atlantic Aviation, or occasionally by appropriately-accredited A&P-holding members. Annual inspections are usually done by Eagle Air Repair in Prescott. Some of the owner type permitted maintenance (oil changes, tires, batteries, lights, etc.) is done by general members.
Does the club require periodic aircraft checkouts after the initial one upon joining?
Each member must complete a checkride every twelve calendar months for each make and model aircraft in which the member has completed a checkout in order to maintain club currency in that make and model; although getting a check-out in the high-performance aircraft automatically counts as a check-out in the standard-performance aircraft.
Further checkride requirements may be established by the board of directors as specified in the club’s operations manual. The checkride will consist of both ground and flight time to cover aircraft operation and club operating procedures.
Do your rates include sales tax?
No. Since we are a non-profit corporation sharing the cost of aircraft ownership between our members for recreation and aviation educational purposes, we do not charge sales tax.
Are the aircraft stored in hangars?
Yes. Each aircraft is parked in a secure hangar on the airport property.
Why do you place limits on the membership number?
Club policy and requirements of our insurer limit the number of active shareholders to 15 per aircraft. The board of directors has set a limit lower to insure good aircraft availability for current members. See the Waiting List for details on the list, and the Fleet Usage and Availability Statistics for statistics of how available our aircraft are!
How does Tach-time relate to Hobbs-time?
Tach-time varies anywhere from 0.9 of Hobbs-time on a cross-country flight to as much as 0.7 on a training flight. When comparing our rates to an FBO that bills on Hobbs-time, multiply our rates by an average of 0.8, or divide the FBO rate by 0.8.
When was the last time your rates changed?
Our monthly dues increased from $100 to $125 in April of 2008. The monthly dues are used for our fixed operating expenses which include insurance, tie-downs and hangars, annual inspections, GPS navigation updates, and office and web site expenses. They also include a margin for “wear and tear” maintenance on the aircraft, new paint, interior replacement, etc.
Our hourly rates are adjusted to cover the actual cost of flying the aircraft. This includes fuel, maintenance, and engine reserves. The last adjustment to our aircraft rates was in September 2016. Details of how we price the aircraft are discussed at monthly business meetings.
What happens to my share when I leave the club? Can I sell it?
If you leave the club, your share may be sold back to the board of directors for $4250, or with board approval, it may be sold to another individual.
Can you tell me more about owning a share in the club?
The cost of a single share when joining Phoenix Flyers Inc., in other words equity in the Club, is $4250. Phoenix Flyers Inc. is registered in the state of Arizona as a 501(c)(7) non-profit corporation. All shareholders are equal owners in the aircraft and have the privilege to use all aircraft providing they meet experience and checkout requirements.
Can I take one of the aircraft into Mexico?
Are you planning to replace any of your aircraft?
The club purchased a 2004 Cessna Skylane in April 2015. The board anticipates replacing another aircraft sometime in in 2019-2020; we’re working to decrease the average age of our fleet.
Can I drive up to the aircraft in my car for loading/unloading?
Both Deer Valley and Chandler airport require a ramp access card. The Club will initiate a ramp pass form and leave it at the operations desk in the main terminal building. Once advised the form is ready, the member should go to the operations desk to complete the form and pay the fee. Deer Valley has an additional 15-minute instructional video to watch with a related test before the pass will be issued. When you leave the Club, this card must be returned to airport operations.
How difficult is it to schedule an aircraft?
The cross-country aircraft average 25 hours per month. The Archer averages around 20 hours per month. Generally, scheduling in the middle of the week is seldom a problem. Weekends and long trips may require a bit more flexibility, scheduling a couple of weeks out. Take a look at our Fleet Usage and Availability Statistics for a more mathematical presentation about this.
The Internet scheduling system that we use makes it very convenient to reserve an aircraft. Multiple scheduling views are available to determine aircraft availability. A demo version of the scheduling system is available at AircraftClubs.com.
What are the requirements for an aircraft checkout?
A separate checkout by a board approved instructor is required for each make and model of aircraft. Our complex and high-performance aircraft have unique checkout requirements.
Comanche (PA24) N9014P
- Private or more advanced pilot certificate.
- 200 hours total Pilot-In-Command (PIC) or 100 hours total PIC with an instrument rating.
- 25 hours in make and model.
- Or, in lieu of make and model time, 10 hours of dual flight instruction in aircraft of the same make and model being flown including at least 15 takeoffs and landings while accompanied by an appropriately certificated flight instructor
- Ground brief and flight check with board-approved CFI.
- High-performance and complex endorsements (available from your board-approved CFI).
Skylane (C182) N493JL & N625LS
- Private or more advanced pilot certificate.
- Ground brief and flight check with board-approved CFI.
- High-performance endorsement (available from your board-approved CFI).
Section 5.5 of the Operations Manual defines reciprocity from our high-performance and glass-cockpit aircraft to the other aircraft. In summary though:
|After an initial checkout, for annual checkrides,|
|If I do a checkride in:|
|Then I can fly:|
Are there short-term memberships available?
Not really, no. We treat everyone the same, in terms of how the monthly fees and how the wait-list works. If you’re only planning to join for a few months, and we’re running a wait-list, we might not be the best fit for you.
Can I pay with a credit card, or using e-bills?
Most members pay with a check or their bank’s e-bill system. You can also pay via PayPal or some other methods; contact the Treasurer for details.
How will I be billed for the use of the aircraft?
Billing is initiated by the Treasurer. Each member receives a monthly statement via e-mail for the fixed dues and flight time charges accrued during the month. Members are expected to pay promptly or be subject to a late charge.
Do you have CFIs in the club?
Yes, we have board-approved CFI’s in the club. Instructor fees are negotiated between the instructor and the member. The only time you are required to use a club instructor is for primary training, initial checkouts and annual check rides. For other types of instruction, such as obtaining an instrument rating or commercial certificate, you may use any CFI of your choice.
What does the monthly fee cover?
Club members are assessed a monthly $125 fee to cover the fixed costs of running the Club and maintaining the aircraft fleet. This fee covers insurance, hanger rental, office supplies, 24 hour reservation service, and some money set aside for aircraft upgrades.
How do your rates compare to an FBO?
Comparing Phoenix Flyer’s Archer to an FBO that charges $128 based on Hobbs time, and 1 hour of Tach Time averaging 0.8 hours of Hobbs Time:
- Converting FBO rate to Tach Time: $128/0.8 = $160.00 per Tach Hour
- Adding %8 sales tax: $160.00 * 1.08 = $172.80 per Tach Hour
We are $172.80 - $110 = $62.80 less per hour. But because of monthly dues you only realize a benefit if you fly more than two hours per month.